I know the story is from a couple months ago... but it begs discussion. :)I realize I get a little snitty in my wording, but I don't feel like rewriting it. The points are very clear and stand on their own.
One of the first, and most ridiculous, things I noticed was the fact that on a show about discrimination against Atheists, they make a panel that includes no atheists. How stupid is that?
That aside, the black guy came the closest to getting the point... the two ladies were total idiots. This is not a Christian nation and was never intended to be one. The Supreme Court has even begun to partially accept that fact and rule according to the Constitution. There is to be no establishment of religion and that is precisely what was done in the mid 1950's to counter the "Godless heathens of Communism" during the McCarthy era "Red Scare". "In God We Trust", "Under God" etc. All added between 1954 and 1957 in violation of the Constitution by acts of Congress.
Many of our founding fathers were Deists, not Christians, and understood the importance of maintaining a secular and neutral government in order to facilitate the equal treatment of all beliefs, religious or not religious. As Thomas Jefferson said: "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
Jefferson, for those who don't know, wrote the Declaration of Independence.
And while he made a few deistic references in it, such as divine providence and man's creator, these are distinctly absent from the Constitution save for the parts where religion is specifically mentioned solely to note it's willful exclusion, as in the cases of there shall not be any religious litmus test for office and specifically spelling out the oath of presidency, conspicuously lacking any religious reference etc.
Those points aside... the two women in the video repeatedly state that they should have the right to have prayer in school etc. What they are obviously too stupid to understand is that as fellow American citizens, we have the right NOT to be forced to participate in your religious beliefs. You cannot legally force a child to say "under God" in the pledge and the supreme court supported this. Our problem is with the stupid Christian belief that they have the right to force Christianity on non-believers, but non-believers don't have a right to speak up against it. I don't trust in God and my government is not supposed to be speaking for me or promoting such a belief. The founding fathers understood this and it wasn't until almost a century after its inception that the larger blows were stricken against freedom of religion.
She is patently wrong is saying that freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom to not believe. That's precisely what it means! It means the freedom to believe in what you want, even if that means no God... as Thomas Jefferson himself plainly stated!
Atheists are tired of being forced to recite religious statements when they don't believe in them. Of having their children forced to recite religious observance statements in school, or participate in religious activities. Of having science replaced by religion in schools etc.
Atheists have just as much of a right to have their opinions heard and to be free of being forced to participate in another persons religion just as much as those stupid bitches on that show whining about the Atheists speaking up about their rights.
It honestly shocks me how they could make such obviously completely hypocritical statements without batting an eyelash! It belies the fact that they don't see Atheists as fellow American citizens. They don't understand the concepts of Freedom and Liberty... of a Neutral and Secular government protecting the rights of ALL of its people to believe as they will... to the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness. They believe that THEY are right and Atheists are wrong, so Atheists need to shut up and not have any rights.
It's this kind of ignorant Christian bullshit that makes me hate Christianity and religion. I have to applaud the black guy for at least understanding the concept that Freedom means that even if you don't like what the other person has to say, you have to allow them the right to say it. They have just as much of a right as you do. Freedom doesn't mean "only what I want to hear" or "only what I want you to believe". Freedom of religion is the freedom to believe what you want to believe and not suffer oppression or persecution for it. And that is most certainly precisely what the Christians are trying their damnedest to do.
PS: I just remembered.. I also hate the egregiously ignorant statement "Atheists don't believe in anything."
How fucking ignorant and stupid is that? Atheists most certainly do believe in quite a number of things. They specifically believe that the idea of a extra-dimensional omnipotent, omniscience man in the clouds who created the universe in 7 days etc... and generally most of the garbage written in the bible, is ridiculous and flies in the face of common sense, logic, and centuries of scientific advancement and human understanding. They believe a whole variety of individual things... they vary from person to person. But them believing, for good reasons, that the mythology of the bible is self-contradictory, evil and ridiculous to say the least... is a belief in itself based on facts and evidence. It is diametrically opposed to a "belief in nothing". As a matter of fact, given the juxtaposition of Christians and Atheists, it is in fact Christians who could more accurately be said to believe in nothing... having a belief in a whole slew of things with cannot be seen, touched, smelled, tasted, tested for, proven, or disproven. Their belief is in the utterly unseeable and unknowable, and goes so far as to not only be unseeable, untestable and undetectable in any way, but also flies in the face of everything that mankind has learned in the millenia since the mythology was written.
Now who believes in "nothing"? It is painful just how stupid Christians can be.
Wednesday, July 04, 2007
Discrimination against Atheists
Another post from my discussions on another forum that I felt should also be posted here.
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I have read most of your stuff and have to agree with you in most areas.
One thing that bugs me though is your attitude in this article.
Yes, you have the freedom to say or do what ever you want.
I support that, but you may want to be more selective about what you say because bashing people or groups who don't believe what you preach, even if they are wrong and you are correct, puts you in a bad light.
I agree with everything you say in this article except all the Christianity bashing of course.
Obviously you really let yourself go on this article.
Though you are free to use it, the amount of profanity chosen in this article would usually only accent an obvious underlining hatred as opposed to supporting any factual evidence.
The Jefferson quotation is gold in your argument.
Use more stuff like that.
All the religion bashing and profanity just equates to dung literature.
Sadly, the article started as a sound voice for freedom... but ended in a profane religion bashing mantra.
Please don't take this comment the wrong way.
You are free to use the language you have chosen.
I'm just suggesting that the message may be a little more powerful with out all the useless baggage.
As I noted at the bottom of the article, that wasn't originally meant for this site. It was posted on a forum where I'm generally substantially looser with my tongue, so to speak, and hence gets "snitty" as I said.
I realize that it's a shortcoming when it comes to making my case etc, and I should go back and rewrite it to correct that.
I'll try to make a point to go over it this afternoon and see if I can't clean it up a bit to the standard I think it should have for this site.
Thanks for the heads up.
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