Sunday, April 24, 2005

my chat with koden tonight.

koden, from my #phreadom irc channel, bought and sent me a book off that he said I should read... Malcolm Gladwell's "The Tipping Point"
The Tipping Point

very awesome of him.

after pulling that out of my mailbox and opening it when I got home... I posted on a few blogs and ended up getting into a debate with him over the basic content of some of my posts... a transcript follows.

Title: His Phoenix: Major coup d'etat for Carlo (at
<largo> please read the comments on that post and tell me what you think.
<largo> frankly I think these idiots are just trying to intimidate me and continually try to liken belief in science to religious belief. ie; a 1 to 1 direct comparison.
<largo> so that if I believe in science, then a belief in god is equally as valid.
<largo> CROCK OF SHIT. :)
<koden> they are close to 1:1
<koden> depends on the answer you are looking for
<largo> elaborate on that please.
<largo> there is a vast difference between provable and wishful thinking.
<koden> to believe science has all the answers, is the same as to believe religion, or faith does
<koden> religion and faith are seperable
<koden> very few things in true science are provable if followed far enough
<largo> god being a god in the gaps... a catch all for the unexplained. and science being the provable beyond a reasonable doubt foundation of understanding the true principles of our environment. as science advances, god in the christian sense is continually pushed into the recesses of the increasingly smaller realm of the unexplained.
<koden> they are true in the context you choose to use them
<largo> use your belief in god to fly a satellite and land in on a moon of saturn then.
<koden> you make too many assumptions i think there
<largo> and this is ignoring the obvious CROCK OF SHIT literal nature of the bible etc.
<koden> science is far from beyond reasonable doubt
<koden> science is only true until disproven generally
<largo> and it is not just a metaphorical story by understanding people... it is a book written in abject ignorance of reality outside the very primitive paradigm of reality that the supposed authors of the bible grasped.
<koden> you are ranting, not discussing
<largo> science is provable beyond a reasonable doubt, and is generally simply refined on. not continually utterly disproven as mythology and supertitious belief.
<koden> science or god, they are both faith
<largo> "well, this book, written thousands of years ago, and full of easily disproven crap, is the foundation for a belief in a guy in the clouds who loves us and directs our lives and helps us out with answered prayers, blessing etc."
* koden waits for another big paragraph
<koden> so christianity and the bible is the only bunk religion?
<largo> faith also allows us to walk outside in the morning and believe that our car will run to drive us to work.
<largo> don't use such an extremely broad word to tie together to disparate belief systems.
<largo> I've been dealing with that enough lately.
<largo> s/to/two
<largo> no, I think islam and judaism as well as many others are a crock of shit as well.
<largo> religion is generally speaking, fundamentally a force to explain the unexplained, provide emotional comfort and social coherence.
<largo> none of which proves or even necessitates any real veracity of said beliefs.
<koden> and what is wrong with that?
<koden> i sit here soundly with the faith that gravity keeps me on the ground, there is no harm in that faith
<largo> in and of itself? more power to those who need it. however, in reality, the subservience it teaches to authority figures leads to a populace of sheep unable to question authority or critically assess information to come to an objective opinion of the facts at hand.
<koden> i also sit here knowing that it is mathematically possible for all the oxygen in the room to collect in the corner, but i dont "believe" it will, no harm in that faith either
<largo> because gravity can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and is regularly used to advance humanity because of it's provable and understood nature.
<koden> so your disdain for religion is that for a disdain of people being subservient?
<koden> gravity is not proven, only observed
<largo> just because we haven't tied gravity into a unified theory, doesn't mean we can't steer spacecraft around our solar system and beyond with the solid facts that we know about it.
<largo> god is neither.
<koden> there is no understanding as to why it exists
<largo> not proven and not observed.
<koden> excatlly, both are faith
<largo> the only "observation" of god is just people ascribing things to him after the fact that they can't understand.
<largo> there isn't even a basic proof of god. there is NO proof.
<largo> big fucking difference.
<largo> but we know it exists. how does not understand "why" yet, disprove it's existance?
<largo> we don't know why WE exist... yet we're here.
<largo> OH NO.
<koden> so people that beleive in a god, to answer the question of "why everything exists?" are wrong, and those that say science has an answer is correct?
<largo> we're going to disappear because we can't prove WHY we exist!!
<largo> OH NOOOOOooooooo.......
<largo> *blink out of existance*
<koden> god is not supposed to have proof, faith is required as any priest or pastor will assure you :)
<largo> it's childish to have to come up with ridiculous fantasies to explain the unexplained just to make yourself feel better.
<koden> it's is in our nature to want to understand and question
<koden> it is neither childish to ask or pursue the question
<largo> it's no different than having to believe that lightning was zeus casting down bolts in retaliation for our sins.
<koden> it would be neive not to
<koden> and? whats the problem with
<largo> it's a stupid fantasy to explain the unexplained, completely unfounded in reality/fact. and eventually disproven as such, which is precisely what is happenening with pretty much all of the supernatural aspects of christianity.
<koden> other then your issue with some sort of sheepening of people i dont see any harm
<largo> which is why christians are fighting so hard to keep such beliefs out of their schools etc.
<largo> it's a threat to their fantasies.
<koden> well my stance on the schools doesnt really apply
<koden> it's a states issue if you ask me
<koden> and i see no problems with letting them decide
<largo> pursue all you want. that's the point. don't stop and say "I don't understand this. so there must be a man on top of that cloud who is doing ALL of this unexplained stuff, and a large portion of this explained stuff that I simply refuse to acknowledge, because facing reality isn't as comfortable as the fairytale I'm preferential to."
<largo> I seriously don't have the energy to debate with you playing devils advocate right now sean.
<largo> I've had a few drinks and it's 3:30am.
<largo> I've been dealing with this shit for weeks now and I have low tolerance for such an approach.
<koden> ok so let run past this now... to assume there is a creator is dumb, and the fact that science has no proof of creation means i am childish for even trying to understand
<largo> wait.
<koden> i am not playing devils advocate, more i think you are wrong
<largo> assuming that there is something behind the creation of the universe that we have ZERO clue about. NOTHING AT ALL.... that's fine.
<largo> ascribing it to a man in the clouds?
<largo> STUPID.
<koden> not really
<largo> there is a reason there are so many religions claiming different origins of life, the universe, man etc.
<koden> if you had the power to create the universe wouldn't you? :)
<largo> because they all did the same thing.
<largo> made up their own stories to explain the unexplained.
<koden> and i again ask, where is the harm?
<koden> and remove "religon" from this
<largo> the harm is in the product of such an ignorant mindset.
<koden> you obviuosly have some personal issues with the idea of religion
<largo> religious wars, religious persecution, the supression of intellectual thought to maintain ignorance as a means to power etc.
<largo> think about it.
<largo> I think you're smart enough that I shouldn't have to explain that.
<koden> isn't ignorance more of an example of someone denying a possibility?
<largo> THAT is what's starting to piss me off.
<largo> ignorance is a lack of knowledge.
<koden> if i call science stupid, i am ignorant. you call god stupid you are enlightened?
<largo> which is what is promoted by religion.
<largo> I didn't call god stupid. I said the belief in the christian god, or generally any major religions definition of god, is stupid.
<koden> ignorance is not lack of knowledge, ignorance is the failure to acknowledge something you know
<largo> semantics.
<largo> that is stupidity.
<koden> ok so god is not dumb but a christian god is dumb?
<largo> ---------
<largo> ig·no·rance Audio pronunciation of "ignorance" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gnr-ns)
<largo> n.
<largo> The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.
<largo> -------
<largo> stupidity
<largo> n 1: a poor ability to understand or to profit from experience [ant: intelligence] 2: a stupid mistake [syn: betise, folly, foolishness, imbecility]
<largo> ----------
<koden> ok
<largo> note the difference.
<koden> now
<largo> seriously sean. I'm not in the mood.
<koden> so einstein being a man of faith
<koden> is stupid
<koden> but not ignorant?
<largo> so was newton.
<largo> in a sense so have been most of the great thinkers.
<koden> so they are the exception?
<largo> they simply chose to question and disagree with their own faith. they stepped outside of christianity.
<largo> they essentially became deists.
<koden> ok but their belief in a creator is ok?
<koden> just bad christian/islam/jew gods are no good
<largo> believing that some power created the universe is a matter of faith. claiming it as fact is stupid, and ascribing it to the christian god is downright idiotic.
<koden> i don't understand how being "anti-religion" makes sense
<largo> jesus christ sean... it's like you're just pushing my buttons for fun.
<koden> blurring the lines? there are no lines life is grey :P
<largo> I'm done debating.
<koden> ok
* largo has a cigarette.
<largo> I appreciate the mental jogging...
<koden> ahh good idea
<largo> but I have a limit of patience. :(
* koden smokes too
<largo> it's a shortcoming of my character.
<koden> its a big topic to take on with out patience :)
<largo> precisely.
* koden playes some james brown
<largo> Eminem - Superman.
<koden> James Brown - Papa
<largo> papa got a brand new bag?
<koden> s Got a brand new bag
<koden> jah
<largo> :)
<koden> hrmm edith piaf would be good now too
<koden> anyway... I have read and studied a lot of that stuff, as well as religions like judaism, freemasonry, latter day saints (
<koden> whats up with freemasons?
<koden> my family on my dad's side were all mason's
<largo> I like Edith Piaf. I have a decent amount of her.
<koden> i just have a best of albumn
<largo> from what I've read on freemasons... it sounds like they're much more in line with old school judaism.
<koden> they are supposed to run the world too right?
<largo> supposedly.
<koden> i had actually thought about checking it out from time to time
<largo> I'm not sure what foundation in reality that likening them with the illuminati and such has.
<largo> from what I've read, there's still too much of a devout belief in god and such.
<largo> interesting, but not my cup of tea.
<koden> i think the only requirement is a belief in a creator, any denomination is accepted
<koden> apparently anyone can join now
<largo> to a point I think.
<largo> well, there's a difference.
<largo> if you're referring to the freemasons based on the grand lodge of england, yes.
<koden> when my father was young you had to be a blood relative of a member
<largo> but if you follow the older, pre-existing and more true to it's origins "version"... then we're dealing with something rather different.
<largo> I somewhat disregarded the validity of the lodge of england based on what I've studied.
<largo> considering that there are historical documents on freemasonry predating it's claim of the first lodge etc.
<largo> there was a lot of crap based on the politics of the time.
<largo> blah blah jacobites blah blah.
<largo> I can't recount it all right now.
<koden> i really just think it would be interesting if only people with blood lineage could join
<koden> i could dig that
<largo> essentially to avoid political persecution, they reinvented themselves to be more inline with the dominant politics of the time and claimed no assocition with, or validity of the previous lodges and made a concerted attempt to bury any evidence of them.
<koden> i just want to rule the world
<largo> hahaha
<koden> it would also be some sort of tangible relic of my lineage
<koden> i don't have any predominant ethnic make up, or regional make up to my lineage
<koden> the roots of my family have been in the america's since pre-revolution
<koden> and in california for atleast 4-5 generations on my fathers side

that's pretty much it. just noticed that Carlo responded to my comments... sounds pissed. *sigh* I guess I'll read it and head to bed. I'm not in the mood to bicker right now.

gute nacht meine freunde.

Saturday, April 23, 2005

another old post on the US Military.

this was a response in September 2003 to an email or journal that my friend Kevin (ex marine military intelligence who served in Korea) wrote for his friends every few days called "The Daily Gripe". I've pasted it verbatim.

well, I tried responding to this yesterday... but on 2 hours of sleep, I went on a rant and typed out 8,437 chars, which vastly exceeds the allowed 4,300 chars for a post. :-/

anyway... the point I wanted to make was that trying to pass out a phrase like "train for war, pray for peace" as being anything remotely related to the viewpoint of the American military machine is just plain silly. the average soldier? sure.... but that's about it.

our country since it's inception has waged an imperialistic war with the rest of the world in the name of democracy and later, national security etc.

I went on at great lengths to explain the CIA's THOUSANDS of minor and major "shadow" operations around the world, the numbers of democratic leaders we've overthrown, imprisoned and/or assassinated, to be replaced with puppet dictators, entirely against the name of democracy, but all for the financial interests of select members of the government, military, or at times private groups... quite often operating without the approval or even knowledge of either congress or the president himself.... all in the name of national security. and how of these thousands and thousands of operations, NOT A SINGLE ONE has been shown to have done anything but DECREASE our national security in the end, and that any temporary benefit was vastly outweighed by the greater detrimental effect on global peace.

Egypt in 1952, Iran in 1953, Guatemala in 1953, Korea in 1960 and 61, Laos in 1960, Zaire in 1960, Dominican Republic in 1963, Vietnam in 1963, Bolivia in 1964 and 71, Brazil in 1964, Indonesia in 1965, Ghana in 1966, Greece in 1967, Cambodia in 1970, Chile in 1973... the list goes on. a few times things got big enough to make it into the press, but even then the media has generally done a fine job of smoothing things out, by either flat out lying, or by only telling a very slanted fraction of the real story. Ever heard of Rachel Corrie? An American girl... an international peace activist who was run over and killed in Palestine in 2002 by an Israeli soldier... you might say "big deal", but then consider that that bulldozer was bought with the $15,000,000.00 PER DAY of AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS we fund Israel with, the solider was funded with those dollars and the bulldozer was made in America.... and even though there are a large number of witnesses who were literally a few feet away from her when it happened and everyone knows that the solider looked her in the eyes as he ran her over, and then backed over her again with the plow down for good measure... our government did nothing. we allowed the Israelis to handle it, which was done by finding the soldier innocent of a simple accident and nothing more was done about it. I find it hard to handle with such "patriotic fervor" when an American girl is in Palestine as an internationally recognized peace activist defending a doctors home from being illegally bulldozed by a religious nation founded and funded with my tax dollars, and is run over repeatedly and crushed to death on purpose by an Israeli soldier funded by my tax dollars, in a bulldozer bought with my tax dollars and built here in good ol' USA... and when a small group of immigrants is allowed, against the wishes of the global community, to wage a genocide against an indigenous people simply because they claim the sky god said they could in some book 3,000 years ago... again, -with my tax dollars-? maybe you're starting to get the picture here.

or let me put it another way... how Saddam "killed thousands of his own people" so he's an evil man and not allowed to have weapons of mass destruction, even though our government officially admits now that he had NOTHING to do with 9/11, nor was he EVER a threat to the United States, and at one point even offered Bin Laden to us on a silver platter... BUT... it's ok Israel has 400 nuclear warheads. and maybe you don't see something a little frightening about the fact that when the global community met in Geneva to discuss Israel's war crimes against Palestine... in 2 of the 3 votes, the United States was the ONLY.. I repeat, THE ONLY dissenting vote on finding Israel guilty. and on the third vote, was one of only 5 dissenting votes in the entire world. It is a globally known fact (mainly outside of the US) that Palestine is at a MUCH higher risk of violence from Israel than vice versa. The death tolls on both sides as well as tons of other information easily back up this statement as the Palestinian dead far outnumber the Israeli dead at an ever growing pace... over 3,000 Palestinians dead in the past 3 years alone... more than 3 times the amount of Israeli dead. go do a research on what -really- is going on over there... I think you'll be shocked. basically a nation of native people is being slaughtered by a US funded religious machine, and those who DARE to defend their land and homes are branded terrorists by the US. oh, and did I mention that in part we're funding the Jews to kill the Arabs in a sense? this is a RELIGIOUS war we're funding. that couldn't possibly have anything to do with Arab resentment of the US... heavens no. and remember that's just this one case... keep digging, the list just goes on and on.

or how about the CIA's involvement setup of the worlds largest Opium pipeline into the US, and the worlds largest Heroin pipeline into the US... most of us have heard about "Air America"... but check into things like "the golden triangle" and "the golden crescent".

I could go on and on and on.... but the point I'm making is pretty blunt and simple. the United States foreign policy has been one of waging ceaseless "secret wars" on third world countries, killing either directly or indirectly hundreds of thousands of by and far mostly innocent people, peaceful democratic and/or religious leaders, generally under the very false guise of "national security", not by the will and certainly not for the benefit of the American people as a whole, but for a select group of military, paramilitary and private people and organizations who directly benefit monetarily. and yet we have the balls to cry foul when a man we armed and trained to fight one of our dirty little wars comes back and dares to do to America what we've been doing to the world for decades.

I want to make it clear that I do respect the soldiers of the American military in the capacity that they were willing to risk their lives for what they believe to be the American ideal... patriotism, freedom, liberty, democracy... whatever... when sadly, by and far they are blind to the truth. but again, to risk your life for such a noble ideal, however misguided, takes a certain kind of person. I respect them for that. I however, will let people like that be the gears in a corrupt global political and economical machine while I try to remain one of the small percent with open eyes who aims to build a new machine.

I don't think you can honestly tell me that you think the war in Iraq was about freedom and democracy, and I don't think you can honestly tell me that the war in Iraq didn't massively erode the already (rightfully so) shaky global opinion of the United States.

take the fall of Iraq for example... a group of maybe 150 select Iraqi's and US military personnel in a closed off square in an otherwise empty part of Baghdad, along with carefully placed media camera crews... surrounded by 3 US tanks on the perimeter.... and all this across the street from the headquarters of the international media. sound like a massive popular uprising of the people? who knows... but it sure looked good on television.

so as far as I'm concerned, all you people who misunderstand what patriotism really is, have a media brainwashed opinion of your own government and military... you can go hug your sky god and ask for his magical blessings while you go fight the next media blitzed imperialist conquest for oil. I'll be busy trying to open suckers eyes and making a difference at the root of the problem. ignorance is the enemy here, and until the day you people wake up and realize what's really going on, this won't ever end. you'll keep fighting a war on terrorism or whatever war they come up with next to strip away my rights and freedoms here on American soil and kill thousands of people in third world countries who don't want to follow uncle Sam's orders, democracy be damned... and the world will continue to hate you and fight back against your actions... and you and people like you will fail to understand why... will rally for the next attack against the heathen aggressors.

hopefully I've made enough of a point here that I need not go on.

quit watching CNN and listening to what the US government and military and mainstream media are spoon feeding you. start talking extensively to people from the rest of the global community as I do... start reading alternate viewpoints... open your mind and look at the big picture... quit being sheep.

open your eyes.

and a note to the lurkers.

I realize that there are some here who read this blog who disagree with what I have to say, but are "afraid" to speak up because they either lack the patience to deal with my condescending responses, or lack the knowledge to back up their beliefs.

to them I'll extend this courtesy... if you'd like to have me patiently address your point and not resort to calling you a sheep or an idiot, simply preface your comment accordingly.

if someone truly disagrees with what I'm saying, and feels they have valid points to make to the contrary, I'd rather hear them stated than just run people off. I'm not accomplishing much if people are unwilling to post for fear of reprisal or whatnot.

but a fair warning... you'd best think twice about what you say. this means that I have done a vast amount of studying, and unless you feel confident that you know better than I do, don't go claiming stupid things as fact. if you're hesitant to say something, go check wikipedia and do some reading on the subject, because it's a fair bet that I've at the very least done that and won't hesitate to correct you.

I'm all fine with, and actually welcome, informed intellectual discussion... but I simply will not tolerate the "Jesus is Lord and you will pay for your blasphemy!" type of utterly idiotic statements here and you WILL be mocked accordingly.

Jesus was a great guy in his own way, so I'll refrain from bashing him too much... it's the idiots that elevated him to a god against his wishes that are the morons here. but on that note, your imaginary god can suck my balls and shaft and throw a finger in the mix for good measure. and I'm just WAITING to see him do anything about me saying that. and if you so fervently believe in him, you can do the same. :)

I don't see any she-bears coming to tear me to pieces for teasing you ala 2 Kings 2:23-25. ;) you people really are sheep, and that's being nice. (yes, go look it up in your bibles kiddies. I have a lot more where that came from.)

but seriously. I'd love a good intellectual debate... but seriously, use your head. don't make stupid unfounded statements to me. there is plenty of room for rational discussion here... but I lose my patience very quickly when you stray into "idiot" territory.

but I give my word. if someone wants a discussion, but has been wary of it for fact of my mocking... simply make that point, and I give my word that I will not stoop that low. the only reason I give that promise is because I know that I am capable of it, I just generally don't care to spend the time. but if someone is honestly interesting in learning different views to compare with their own, and is interested in rational discussion. I will do so. I simply want to know off the bat their intentions... I dislike wasting my time on frivolous comments, because it makes me doubly upset at the end when I feel like I've poured my efforts into the dirt.

(and for those of you with the severe misconception that I think I know everything, I run a chat channel on IRC where I've been hanging out for several years with people who are a good deal smarter than I am, and with a variety of beliefs. mormon, jew, etc. because the channel is #phreadom, I do make an effort to allow dissenting views, and I love to learn from those people. but I also don't tolerate what I perceive as idiocy there either. I won't kick someone out, but I will mock them. that's the beauty of freedom after all (and they mock me for my shortcomings or perceived misconceptions). you're free to state your beliefs, but I'm also free to mock you for them. but I digress... point being, I know many people who I consider far smarter than I am. I have a great deal of respect for many people like that... as well as even for simple people who I've known in my life... for having good hearts, if not the minds to understand the concepts here. but I've never had them cross me on my beliefs either. anyway... I don't think I'm better than everyone, nor do I think I'm smarter than everyone. as I once stated a few weeks ago, I generally have never met a person I couldn't learn something from. food for thought.

just because I can be arrogant and condescending at times doesn't change the veracity of my statements. the facts within them stand on their own, whether or not I candy coat them, or sling them like greek fire.)

more meta post goodness.

another old post, and some follow up random stuff.

The Bill of Non-Rights
The following has been attributed to State Representative Mitchell Kaye from GA. This guy should run for President.

"We the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid more riots, keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure the blessings of debt free liberty to ourselves and our great-great-great-grandchildren, hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt ridden, delusional, and other liberal bed-wetter's. We hold these truths to be self evident: that a whole lot of people are confused by the Bill of Rights and are so dim they require a Bill of NON-Rights."

ARTICLE I: You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV, or any other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them, but no one is guaranteeing anything.

ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone-not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc.; but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be.

ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you Stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful, do not expect the tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy.

ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing. Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes.

ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would be nice, but from the looks of public housing, we're just not interested in public health care.

ARTICLE VI: You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us want to see you fry in the electric chair.

ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If you rob, cheat, or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you still won't have the right to a big screen color TV or a life of leisure.

ARTICLE VIII: You do not have the right to a job. All of us sure want You to have a job, and will gladly help you along in hard times, but we Expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself useful.

ARTICLE IX: You do not have the right to happiness. Being an American means that you have the right to PURSUE happiness, which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by an over abundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused by the Bill of Rights.

ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you are from, English is our language. Learn it or go back to wherever you came from.


ARTICLE XI: You do not have the right to change our country's history or heritage. This country was founded by many who believed in the one true God and came to these shores for the freedom to worship Him. And yet, you are given the freedom to believe in any religion, any faith, or no faith at all; with no fear of persecution. The phrase IN GOD WE TRUST is a part of our heritage and history, and if you are uncomfortable with it, TOUGH!!!!

If you agree, share this with a friend. No, you don't have to, and Nothing tragic will befall you if you don't. I just think it's about time common sense is allowed to flourish.

this is actually a VERY good post... all but article XI which manages to only falter a little... it does get it partly right.

ARTICLE XI: You do not have the right to change our country's history or heritage. This country was founded by many who believed in the one true God and came to these shores for the freedom to worship Him. And yet, you are given the freedom to believe in any religion, any faith, or no faith at all; with no fear of persecution. The phrase IN GOD WE TRUST is a part of our heritage and history, and if you are uncomfortable with it, TOUGH!!!!

This country was -not- founded by many who believed the Christian god inferred in that statement, nor any god for that matter in many cases. Try not to confuse our founding fathers with the Puritans etc who preceded them by over a century, and who practiced some of the worlds most vicious religious persecution. The United States was founded on the authority of WE THE PEOPLE, not god, any king, dictator etc.

He does get it perfectly right when he says we are guaranteed the right to have any faith or religion, or -no faith at all- with no fear of persecution. that's a VERY important point to understand.

however... he directly blows that beautiful would be save with a disasterously cliche comment... the phrase "In god we trust" was never a part of the founding of our country... it was illegally added to our money by the Mccarthy era congress to literally make our government take a (christian) religious stand against the percieved "godless heathens" of communism, in direct violation of the constitution and the rights of the 30,000,000 of us Americans who don't worship the sky god. Our nation was founded expressly as a secular nation, with the motto "E Pluribus Unum" ("out of many, [come] one") which holds true to the ideals of the United States.

Yes, I am uncomfortable with it... but unfortunately, I've done my homework and have the facts on my side. So it seems to fall on me to correct this common and cherished christian misconception. I fight regularly for those of you who choose to worship the sky god, or allah, or a tree or whatever... and that point made here was very important to understand. We all have the right equally to choose what to believe in, or not to believe at all... and our founding fathers were VERY careful to found an utterly and completely secular nation in order to maintain the neutrality necessary to truly guarantee that those rights are not infringed upon.

(if anyone cares, I'd be willing to show you the clear lack of any religious reference save the inferences to "natures god" or a mans "creator" or "divine providence" made in the original declaration of independence, which are gone from the constitution, bill of rights and to my knowledge, all additional amendments, save where mentioned as part of a statement such as the first amendment. and how in some places, such as Article II, Section 1, Clause 8 of the constitution specifically stating the presidential oath "Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--'I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.' " devoid of any reference to god... and in Article 6, Clause 3 of the Constitution: "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

You should notice the trend here to make sure our government serves the people and the constitution, and NOT any particular god or religion, while being very careful to protect peoples individual freedom of religion or lack thereof.

Statements like the one which I'm taking the time here to correct, are made more and more often lately in defense of the increasingly open Christian stance our government is attempting to take with such blatantly religiously weighted movements such as Bush Jr's "Faith Based Initiatives" etc. and I hope you can see where such statements become plainly false religious proganda, and I also earnestly hope you understand the very important reasons for separation of church and state and -true- freedom of religion and a completely secular and religiously neutral government.

the meta post.

ok... this one's going to be a doozy. just a collection of stuff I had laying around the computer. forgive it's haphazard appearance, this is just how I have it. sorry.

mind you, I'm posting these en masse, without proof reading... so on with the show. I'll also be posting another post after this, as there's quite a bit, and I'd rather split it up a tad to ease commenting in the off chance that someone cares to comment. seems I have a way of scaring people away from speaking up. :P

"You see, they [conservatives] love America the way a four-year-old loves her mommy. Liberals love America like grown-ups. To a four-year-old, everything Mommy does is wonderful and anyone who criticizes Mommy is bad. Grown-up love means actually undestanding what you love, taking the good with the bad, and helping your loved one grow. Love takes attention and work and is the best thing in the world."
- Al Franken

"Too powerful to be stopped, too stupid to quit!"

"See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction."
—George W. Bush, Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power."
- Benito Mussolini

"So numerous indeed and so powerful are the causes which serve to give a false bias to the judgment, that we, upon many occasions, see wise and good men on the wrong as well as on the right side of questions of the first magnitude to society. This circumstance, if duly attended to, would furnish a lesson of moderation to those who are ever so much persuaded of their being in the right in any controversy. And a further reason for caution, in this respect, might be drawn from the reflection that we are not always sure that those who advocate the truth are influenced by purer principles than their antagonists. Ambition, avarice, personal animosity, party opposition, and many other motives not more laudable than these, are apt to operate as well upon those who support as those who oppose the right side of a question. Were there not even these inducements to moderation, nothing could be more ill-judged than that intolerant spirit which has, at all times, characterized political parties. For in politics, as in religion, it is equally absurd to aim at making proselytes by fire and sword. Heresies in either can rarely be cured by persecution."
- Alexander Hamilton - federalist papers no.1

If you see a blind man, kick him. Why be kinder than God?
- Old Iranian Proverb

The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist.
- George Bernard Shaw

CYNIC n. A blackguard whose faulty vision causes him to see things as they are, not as they ought to be
- Ambrose Bierce

I don't mean to sound cold or cruel or vicious, but I am, so that's the way it comes out
- Bill Hicks

(sing to the tune of "I am the Very Model of a Modern Major General", from The Pirates of Penzance)


I am the very model of a Neo-Con Conservative.
No income tax in Crawford Texas! That's why I choose there to live.
I've met the Queen of England. All her people think "What a moron!"
The PM's in my pocket. So, the people they close the door on!
Ten million people protest me. I call them just a "focus group".
Made Uncle Dick Vice President. He say's he'll keep me in the loop.
I campaigned as a moderate and quickly shifted to the Right.
As long as Diebold's counting votes, the next election's locked up tight!

As long as Diebold's counting votes, the next election's locked up tight!
As long as Diebold's counting votes, the next election's locked up tight!
As long as Diebold's counting votes, the next election's locked up tight!

Not very good pronouncing names of folks from former Soviet Blocs
That's why I love the President of Mexico, Vin-cen-te Fox
Uncurious 'bout world affairs? It's just my my brain is like a sieve.
I am the very model of a Neo-Con Conservative.

Uncurious 'bout world affairs? It's just his brain is like a sieve.
He is the very model of a Neo-Con Conservative.

Not very well acquainted with the cultures of the Middle East.
So long as oil is flowing about them I couldn't care the least!
Osama and Saddam I will convince you are one and the same.
And out in North Korea I refuse to talk to "What's his name"!

I go out golfing with my dad, while others I send off to war.
Minorities from inner cities? Cannon fodder's what they're for!
The Texas oil cartels have funded my campaigns quite well, and so...
The Halliburton contracts were all promised very long ago.

The Halliburton contracts were all promised very long ago.
The Halliburton contracts were all promised very long ago.
The Halliburton contracts were all promised very long ago.

By signing an abortion ban I take a woman's rights away.
I think that God's behind me so I really don't care what you say.
Reporters who dare criticize? To me? Major league (expletive)!
I am the very model of a Neo-Con Conservative.

Reporters who dare criticize? To him? Major league (expletive)!
He is the very model of a Neo-Con Conservative.

From my father I inherit not just office, but an attitude.
My mother's ugly temper's veiled with kind New England platitudes.
My daughters, twins, they got from me desire to get liquored up.
And Barney, on the runway... My wife Laura's blamed. SHE dropped that pup.
My brother down in Florida - he promised I'd win at the polls.
He made it happen dropping names of Blacks off the election rolls.
My drug use in my reckless youth - effects profound and seminal.
In short, my whole dang family's dysfunctional and criminal.

In short, my whole dang family's dysfunctional and criminal.
In short, my whole dang family's dysfunctional and criminal.
In short, my whole dang family's dysfunctional and criminal.

My military service is as sketchy as you know it's brief.
Though I went AWOL I am now America's Command'r in Chief
Mission Accomplished! Many died protecting how the privileged live.
I am the very model of a Neo-Con Conservative.

Mission Accomplished! Many died protecting how the privileged live.
I am the very model of a Neo-Con Conservative.

"The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."
--Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55 B.C.

"There is no such country...Palestine is a term the zionists invented..Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
--Auni BeyAbdul-Hati to the Peel commission in 1937.

"The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology."
— Michael Parenti
political scientist

"The United States spends more on arms annually, $275 billion presently, than the rest of the Security Council combined. U.S. arms expenditures are approximately 25 times the gross national product of Iraq. The U.S. has in its stockpiles more nuclear bombs, chemical and biological weapons, more aircraft, rockets and delivery systems in number and sophistication than the rest of the world combined. Included are twenty commissioned Trident II nuclear submarines any one of which could destroy Europe."
— Ramsey Clark
former U.S. Attorney General
Letter to the U.N., November 1998

In 1983, President Reagan sent an envoy to Baghdad to make nice with Saddam Hussein. That envoy was Donald Rumsfeld. All this was happening at the same time reports were reaching the West that Iraq had started using mustard gas on the battlefield. The United Nations confirmed Iraq's use of prohibited weapons. The State Department condemned Baghdad but took no punitive action. And later the same year, 1984, President Reagan quietly restored diplomatic ties with Iraq for the first time in nearly two decades. After this, the United States only increased its support for Iraq.

Most crucially, the US and UK blocked condemnation of Iraq's known chemical weapons attacks at the UN Security Council. No resolution was passed during the war that specifically criticised Iraq's use of chemical weapons, despite the wishes of the majority. The only reproach from the Security Council was in the form of non-binding Presidential statements (over which no country has a veto). A statement in March 1986 recognised that "chemical weapons on many occasions have been used by Iraqi forces against Iranian forces". This statement was opposed by the US, the only country to vote against it in the Security Council. The UK abstained.

Donald H. Rumsfeld went to Baghdad in March 1984 with instructions to deliver a private message about weapons of mass destruction: that the United States' public criticism of Iraq for using chemical weapons would not derail Washington's attempts to forge a better relationship, according to newly declassified documents.

The Reagan Legacy that Bush follows

epitaph of the Reagan presidency will be: 'When Ronald Reagan became President, the United States was the largest creditor nation. When he left the presidency, we were the world's largest debtor nation.'"
--Lester Thurow, MIT professor of economics

"[A] lapse into fiscal indiscipline on a scale never before experienced in peacetime."
--David Stockman (Reagan's budget director) describing the 1980's, The Triumph of Politics: Why the Reagan Revolution Failed

"In the Reagan years, more federal debt was added than in the entire prior history of the United States."
--Richard Darman (Reagan advisor), Who's in Control? Polar Politics and the Sensible Center

This is not about the left wing or the right wing. It's about how to stop these wing-nuts from turning the world into a military playground for the Fortune 500. It's not about ideology. It's about human decency and common sense.
-- .John Perry Barlow

"Secrecy is the keystone of all tyranny. Not force, but secrecy . . . censorship. When any government...undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked, contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free."
-Robert Anson Heinlein, "If This Goes On-"


"Because ever since I was a baby crawling around the TV set I've been suckered, lied to and propagandized. The kind of psychological abuse I've been subjected to may not be as bad as sexual abusebut, believe me, it leaves lifelong scars nonetheless. I feel empty, soulless, mindfucked....and now it's payback time."

it's a matter of prescience but not the science fiction kind
it's all about ignorance, and greed, and miracles for the blind
The media parading, disjointed politics
founded on petro-chemical plunder and we're it's hostages

if you stand to reason, you're in the game
the rules may be elusive but our pieces are the same
and you know if one goes down we all go down as well
the balance is precarious as anyone can tell
this world's going to hell

don't allow this mythologic hopeful monster to exact it's price
we can't do nothing and think someone else will make it right

you might not think it matters now but what if you are wrong
you might not think theres any wisdom in a fucked-up punk rock song
but the way it is cannot persist for long
a brutal sun is rising on our sick horizon
it's in the way we live our lives
exactly like the double-edge of a cold familiar knife
and supremacy weighs heavy on the day
it's never really what you own but what you threw away
and how much did you pay?

you saw a steady state a bounty for eternity
but now the wisdom that sustains us is in full retreat
don't allow this mythological hopeful monster isn't worth the risk
we can't have vision for the future if it can't be fixed
we need a fresh and new religion to run our lives
the arid torpor of inaction will be our demise

--Bad Religion--

Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.

The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.

Government should relax regulation of Big Business and Big Money but crack down on individuals who use marijuana to relieve the pain of illness.

Standing Tall for America means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India.

A woman can?t be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.

The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans benefits and combat pay.

Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you someday run for governor of California as a Republican.

If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

HMOs and insurance companies have the interest of the public at heart.

Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.

Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.

Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.

A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.

Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.

You support states rights, which means Attorney General John Ashcroft can tell states what local voter initiatives they have a right to adopt.

What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the 80s is irrelevant.

Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

--- followed by ---

Things you have to believe to be a Demonrat today.

Liberals have a great deal of sympathy for a drug addict. They feel he is a victim, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then he is an evil son of a bitch that should die a slow death.

The United States should relinquish our sovereignty & all power to the United Nations. They think the UN will defend everyone from every thing.

Government should regulate Big Business because they are evil and corrupt. All while legalizing hallucinating drugs so people have more opportunity to expand their minds and live a healthy life.

Standing Tall for America means joining a union, demanding higher wages and more benefits and then wondering why your job was moved off shore.

Believing that a woman's right to choose murdering a child is justified and individuals should have the freedom to murder innocent unborn babies but feel sorry for convicted murderers and declare it immoral to allow capital punishment.

Jesus is actually a woman who goes by the name of Hillary Clinton and wrote the gospel It Takes a Village.

"The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans benefits and combat pay."
(No editing done on this one since it is a total lie. However, it does fit what liberals believe.)

Keeping foreign dignitaries waiting while having oral sex performed in the oval office by working subordinates is good. Lying about it is inconsequential and the fact that the man with the potential for allowing nuclear warheads to launch, was a coke-head, was not cause for alarm.

If condoms are passed out in schools, adolescents will always use them and the only sex will be safe sex. The word abstinence should be banned because it is vulgar.

A good way to fight terrorism is to listen to your allies that only fight after they have been invaded and taken over by Hitler.

Government has the interest of the public at heart and can run health care more efficiently than the private sector.

Providing health care to all Iraqis is terrible policy because Iraq is a rich country that does not need any help. Providing health care to all Americans is needed because America is poor and people cannot cope without the governments help.

Global warming and evolution are proven facts. Never mind that they call it "The theory of evolution" and the earth has been naturally warming and cooling for thousands of years. They both should be taught with the fervor of a religious conviction.

Saddam was a bad guy from 1993 to 2000 when the UN, France & Slick Willie told us he was but he suddenly became a good guy when Bush became president.

One should be proud when lying to a Grand Jury. But following the oath of office and doing what you believe is right is an impeachable offense.

Government should not concern itself with the constitution. Nor should it consider the morals of the society it represents. Government should not be concerned with morals at all and allow individuals to determine their own morals.

Purchasing $12,000 worth of cattle trades while only putting up $1,000 is normal. Making a profit of $100,000 on this is a common occurrence and no one should question it. But when someone is running for office and voluntarily reveals a DUI that occurred 30 years ago, we should hold an inquisition and claim that person is unfit to serve.

"What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the 80s is irrelevant."
Who gives a shit what either of them did in the 60's or 80's?

When a demonratic president is in office, trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony. This belief becomes taboo when the administration changes to Republican.

Neither the Jeffersonians nor their Federalist opponents admitted to being a political party. To them the term party meant the same as faction. It also meant the victory of selfishness and contention over the selfless unanimity they felt a republic needed.

"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people."
-- Eleanor Roosevelt

"Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--'I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.' " [U.S. Constitution, Article II, Section 1] This is the only oath given in the Constitution, and it is entirely secular.

"Science is an eternal struggle against our desire to have the universe be ordered in some emotionally satisfying way."

Once there lived a village of creatures along the bottom of a great crystal river. Each creature in its own manner clung tightly to the twigs and rocks of the river bottom, for clinging was their way of life, and resisting the current what each had learned from birth. But one creature said at last, "I trust that the current knows where it is going. I shall let go, and let it take me where it will. Clinging, I shall die of boredom."

The other creatures laughed and said, "Fool! Let go, and that current you worship will throw you tumbled and smashed across the rocks, and you will die quicker than boredom!"

But the one heeded them not, and taking a breath did let go, and at once was tumbled and smashed by the current across the rocks. Yet, in time, as the creature refused to cling again, the current lifted him free from the bottom, and he was bruised and hurt no more.

And the creatures downstream, to whom he was a stranger, cried, "See a miracle! A creature like ourselves, yet he flies! See the Messiah, come to save us all!" And the one carried in the current said, "I am no more Messiah than you. The river delight to lift us free, if only we dare let go. Our true work is this voyage, this adventure.

But they cried the more, "Saviour!" all the while clinging to the rocks, making legends of a Saviour.
-- Richard Bach

Men of lofty genius when they are doing the least work are most active.
-- Leonardo da Vinci

Formerly,We Suffered From Crimes.
Now,We Suffer From Laws.


before my next massive post... I figure I'd throw this in... after the story the other day about a water stain under a bridge... I figure that this is only appropriate to dig out of the archives.

'Virgin Mary' toast fetches $28,000

suckers. *chuckle*

and it seems that Phoenix sic'ed a friend of hers on me thinking they were going to show me up. I find it doubly amusing that first of, she thought I wouldn't see her blog post on it? and secondly that she thought this person was going to show me up somehow? I'll give carlo credit... 75% of his comment was well worded, well approached, and somewhat well thought out. it just managed to horribly fail right at the end. :-/ I'm kind of hoping that this person will continue to post, in spite of my condescending nature, as they seem to be better trained in the art of "professional" debate. I could learn a few things on that point I'm sure. :)

anyhoo... on with the posts!

Friday, April 22, 2005


I have a massive amount of stuff I'll probably be posting at some point tomorrow. I'd like to give the stuff that's there right now a chance to sit for a bit before I go shoving it far far down the page. ;)

basically I went digging around my computer tonight and ran across a bunch of interesting stuff... old articles and posts on freedom of religion, politics, interesting quotes from many sources...

it should be quite the meta-post. ;)

see you then!

a post just for Lisa.

seeing as Lisa banned me from posting on her blog, I figure I'll be nice and not just post on it anyway. if she's still swinging by here, she'll see this. it's in reponse to her post "America vs. the world". (which frustratingly enough, I can't find a way to link directly to, but it's her April 15th post. scroll down a bit for it.)


surprisingly enough, generally speaking I agree with pretty everything that was said here. the only thing I can clarify is that a lot of the reason why support for the war in iraq wained, was because the US chose to disregard the UN and the wishes of the world community and go in unilaterally. that was the most fatal move on "our" part. (please note that I am extremely against Bush and do not condone the actions of the US government)

there has never before in the history of mankind been so many people on the streets around the world simultaneously protesting against one man.

also, please remember that the US actually backed Saddam's right to gas the Kurd's. we were "allies" with Saddam then, and we are the ones who sold him the weapons that he was using to do these things.

with that in mind, just remember, it's not just that history is written by the victors, which it is... but it is also revisionist "historians" that you have to really watch out for. without a watchful eye, groups can fairly easily sway the perception or general belief of historical events to be dramatically different from the actual HISTORICALLY DOCUMENTED events. the problem is people just swaying with current opinion and mass media and not digging back into the archives to see for themselves what really happened. we see this with the history of the US's involvement with the funding, arming and training of Al-Queda in the 80's to use to fight to Soviets in Afghanistan, we see this with the holocaust victims in WW2, with Viet Nam, with Saddam... the list goes on. The US has done a lot of terrible and very stupid things, but because the stories we generally hear tell us otherwise, most people don't bother to dig for the facts, and so even though they're there, most people never know about it.

some trivia... when asked when the last time a war was fought on american soil, most people would probably say the civil war, right? actually the Japanese held several islands in the aleutian chain off alaska during world war 2, and some of the bloodiest and costliest battles of the entire war were fought on american soil. also, the japanese were firebombing the US with paper balloons... but the information was supressed because the US didn't want morale affected in the US population.

and to touch on what she said, far more lives were lost in japan due to our firebombing the cities etc, than were during the atomic bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. the cities were bombed simply to show such a dramatic show of force as to convince Hirohito to endorse surrender. without the express order of the emperor, the japanese people would have fought to the death, to the last man. it was a matter of honor.

also, we were covertly already "at war" with Japan before the attack on Pearl Harbor. contrary to popular belief, Pearl Harbor was NOT unprovoked.

but as everyone said... history is written by the victors... however, in modern day, if you look in the right places, you can usually figure out the truth.

there are lots of interesting things in history when you really dig for it. I'm glad to see Lisa learning about this stuff.


a few things I thought of after the fact were things like Bush's extreme arrogance and ignorance. claiming that the war was won, and major combat operations had ceased? far far more american lives have been lost since then and the war has only gotten bloodier. we are fighting a losing battle. the world has ceased to care as much and we're left mopping up the mess we created.

have a look at the body counts for yourself. make sure you don't miss the fine print. the actual number is believed to be around 10 TIMES that for the Iraqi's. the military only lists people reported as directly killed by military action.

I don't really want to get into all the other aspects of this, such as the many recorded lies Bush and his administration told to the UN and to the American People, along with the deliberate deceptions in trying to claim that Saddam had ANYTHING to do with 9/11 etc. as the 9/11 commission finally stated clearly, Saddam Hussein had NO involvement in 9/11. honestly the country who was BY FAR most directly involved with 9/11 was SAUDI ARABIA. the 28 pages blacked out of the report mostly detail that involvement. the reason the US won't admit to it, it because the Saudi's account for around 6% of the US economy. so, even though Bush said we would hunt down and kill anyone involved with the terrorists, he just turned a blind eye to the Saudi's who WERE partially responsible for 9/11 and instead attacked a country that had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT under false pretenses!

Bush managed to turn the greatest outpouring of sympathy and solidarity towards the US in decades, into a catalyst for the US being the most feared rogue nation on earth.

I'll leave this sit for now... as it's depressing going into detail on a topic, when you feel that either noone will give a shit or bother to post... or will just say that you're full of shit and completely miss the point.

Lisa, hopefully this will provide you with some more food for thought and bolster your belief that standing up for the truth is the right thing to do, even when you are in the minority. don't sway with the fashionable trends, stand fast with the facts. good job.

(4:38am, so sorry if I'm a little incoherent. bad habit of posting LATE at night.)

Tuesday, April 19, 2005

<proctologiste> Ratzinger's nickname is Panzerkardinal

ahh.... how lovely to have an ex-nazi as the next pope!! sure many people were hoping for a black or latin american pope to show an acceptance of other races and whatnot... but how does the catholic church respond?

fuck you guys! nazipope!

ex hitler youth. ahh.. the good times.


anyway... I can't wait for the downfall of the catholic church and the end of one of the longest lived and most oppressive political powers in history. responsible for setting humanity as a whole back by literally CENTURIES. if not for them, we would have been where we are today, hundreds of years ago... and the life that we now live could be so vastly advanced as to be incomprehensible to us today. consider the advances we've made in the past 100 years ago... and now imagine if we had been landing on the moon in the 18th century.

I HATE religion.
fucking IDIOTS.

not to mention reading one of the most pathetic pieces of propaganda in a long time this morning...

and my responses to it whilst chatting with Jen:
(13:08:49) phreadom: and reading that is just pissing me off even more.
(13:09:05) phreadom: that is the most sickeningly propaganda laden article I've seen in awhile.
(13:09:45) phreadom: good overcame evil! have faith in god! oh the poor baby's head and body were found a week apart! the horror! won't someone think of the children! stand behind your religious government while we combat TERRORISM!
(13:09:49) phreadom: when it should read:
(13:13:48) phreadom: this federal government building, housing among other things, the secret service, was bombed in retaliation for the government slaughter and subsequent libel and coverup of the ruby ridge incident and later the montana freemen incident and also the waco incident. both the ruby ridge incident and waco incident have proof of the governments negligence, corruption and dishonesty, but the public record shows none of this, save a eventual quiet monetary settlement with the ruby ridge survivors. the murrah building bombing was in retaliation against a corrupt government that murders and then covers up the murders of citizens who try to exercise their constitutional rights. it was blow struck by the only means possible against a government that maintains a massive standing army that is used against it's own people as expressly forbidden by the founding fathers.
(13:14:15) phreadom: it's fucking propaganda what they wrote. pure and simple. it sickens me.
(13:14:30) Jen Rademacher: I don't know what to say to that :)
(13:14:53) phreadom: there was a fucking reason why that building was bombed. and it's not like any more innocent people were killed in that 1 incident than all the people who were killed at waco and ruby ridge...
(13:15:10) Jen Rademacher: Oh I know exactly what you're saying
(13:15:10) phreadom: I'm not sure if anyone was killed in the freemen stand off... but it's possible. I'll have to go read up on it.

oh, and for the record? the USA deserved 9/11.

fuck you ignorant idiots out there that think otherwise... religion is just one of my hobbies and I'll gladly get into it on politics as well. how cliche.

Bush is an ex-alcoholic, ex-coke addict, ex-cheerleader who was a draft dodging coward with a low IQ who pushed his way into office on daddy's coat tails and money (along with saudi oil money) and with the backing of the unfortunately large amount of stupid fucking christian idiots in the country who can't think for themselves, so simply back the biggest idiot that's like themselves. (and not to forget, the top 10% of the extremely rich who also benefit from him being in office... as well as big-corporate america.)

god I really fucking hate the world.

yet again, misanthropy is the word of the day. *sigh*

Monday, April 18, 2005


I was watching this anime the other day called "Yakitate JAPAN!", and had to pause it for some reason... when I came back to the screen, this is the image it was frozen on... so I took a screenshot. I haven't been able to stop laughing every time I look at it... so I figured I'd share it.


Monday, April 04, 2005

chew on this.

following in my vein of posting previous posts rather than having to retype everything I've said before, I've pulled up a copy of a post I made on usenet around 8 months ago that contains a list of verses and other information and well as plenty of food for thought.

I would appreciate that before the next person posts something here, that they actually put some serious thought into the questions I've posed and if they're going to make ANY statement about what God is, or does, or believes, or the church etc... that they list a bible verse that backs up that statement. because I'm getting awfully tired of people thinking that just because they were told something in sunday school, that that is what the bible actually says... much less having any historical, cultural or theological background behind it to put it into context.

thanks. (I have my study bible ready. it contains 4 side by side translations of the bible. the King James, New International, Living and New Revised Standard versions. if you list a verse, I'm pretty sure I won't have a problem finding it.)

Subject: Re: Christ is returning!!<--You bring the beer, I'll bring the nails! From: Phreadom
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 18:52:25 GMT

"Schfooge" wrote in
> "Phreadom" wrote in message
> news:Xns953E80827DCDBphr34d0m@
>> later, after rather dramatically different sects of christianity had
>> spread across the continent, Constantine and the council of Nicene,
>> who was a blatant pagan worshipping the sun and apollo etc, had HIS
>> version of the of the bible canonized, using only 4 of the over TWO
>> HUNDRED ACCEPTED AND HOLY GOSPELS of the time, many of which were
>> drastically different and contradictory and known to be works of
>> fiction or drastically edited to fit the whims of the particular
>> author... and which are largely suspected to be wholly bereft of ANY
>> works of the original
> That Constantine adopted Christianity for political reasons is likely
> true. That does not necessarily negate the value or the truth
> underlying the religion.

constantine was a christian by name, but a practicing pagan who was not
baptized until he laid on his death bed and a priest put holy water on his
forehead and baptized him as a christian just before his death. a nice
"just in case" measure. it was an easy method for him to reign in and
control the growing christian populace and guide it to his own political
aims. during his reign christianity was rewritten from it's foundations to
be as much pagan as it was christian. incorporating pagan beliefs from
ancient greek, roman, egyptian mythology etc... numerology, astrology...
constantine had a giant pagan obelisk (a phallus actually) moved into the
center of constantinople and forced his "christians" to worship that on
SUNday after he had the sabbath day moved to match the pagan day of sun
worship. he erected statues of apollo as himself and demanded the same of
them. the list goes on. after the canonization of what is essentially THE
christian bible, his own head of council told him that they had commited
heresy under fear of retribution from him if they did not comply
(execution). with all the other gospels destroyed (remember, books were a
very rare thing in those days, as each copy had to be hand written), that
pretty much cemented modern day christianity, and that's not even
mentioning the fact that it was bullshit before that...

oh, and let's not forget the christians burning the library of alexandria
because they didn't agree with the wealth of enlightened knowledge it
contained from all over the known world. their religious intolerance set
the WORLD back by CENTURIES. we would likely have had men on the moon in
the 1800's if not for YOUR religion. who can even IMAGINE where we would be
today... and the legacy CONTINUES! through the ages we've had to deal with
the inquisition, the witch hunts, even people being killed and imprisoned
for teaching evolution! such great thinkers as galileo had to RISK THEIR
LIVES to enlighten the world.

your religion at large has been, since it's inception, more of a hindrance
to the advance of humanity than it has been a help.

religion is the opiate of the masses, and your religion would rather have
all people as ignorant sheep who were still as they were 2 millenia ago,
and worshipping the imaginary sky god, and following the ancient religious
laws to the T. still reveling in ignorant amazement at things like
lightning, still thinking the earth was flat and the center of our solar
system, still believing it ok to own slaves, repress women, kill your
children etc...

thank GOD that there have been brave souls who could think outside the
narrow ignorant worldview commanded by christianity. (pun intended)

>> apostles. all the other gospels were destroyed at Constantines
>> command, thereby cementing the religion from then on as a descendant
>> of roman catholic dogma, known to be heretical even to the fictional
>> beliefs that came before...
> Actually, I somewhat agree with you there. Personally, I feel that
> the Bible is a flawed document with obvious problems. However, that
> does not necessarily mean that there is nothing of value or true in
> what remains. There is still much that is worthy and can be learned
> from in the Bible.

there is just as much to be learned from pretty much any religion on earth,
and there are religions which are BETTER suited to the task than
christianity. that is a hollow excuse. for instance:

rejoicing while you dash the brains of your enemies babies on rocks. (Psalm

kill your wife if she's not a virgin when you marry her.
(Deuteronomy 22:13-21)

kill your children who are too disobedient. (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)

kill anyone who works on the sabbath day (now do we make this saturday? or
sunday? or both?) (Exodus 35:2)

eating shrimp is an abomination in gods eyes, just as he thinks
homosexuality is. (Leviticus 11:9-12, Deuteronomy 14:9-10) and so is ham of
course... but grasshoppers and locusts are all good eatin' in gods eyes!
(Leviticus 11:22, Matthew 3:4)

kill anyone you think is a "witch" (Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 20:27)

the ACTUAL 10th commandment - "thou shalt not boil a baby goat in it's
mothers milk." following up that you must give the best of the first of
each years crop to the tabernacle. (look that one up if you don't believe
me, and make sure you actually get the ten commandments that god actually
says "these are my ten commandments, my covenant with the people..." and
not the ones that are NEVER called the ten commandments, but which
christians, trying to make their religion more palatable, adopted over the
REAL ones a few chapters later. (reference: your supposed ten commandments
in Exodus 20:2-17 and then the real ones, and more specifically the real
10th commandment in Exodus 34:26)

we can go on and on... killing your children in the name of god (Judges
11:30-39, Genesis 22:2, Exodus 22:29, II Samuel 21:8-14, Hebrews 10:10-12),
polygamy, mistresses (and we're talking HUNDREDS of sexual partners, wives,
mistresses per man: I Kings 11:1-3, Judges 8:30-31), killing rape victims
or forcing them to marry their rapists (Deuteronomy 22:23-24, Deuteronomy
22:28-29), women being worth half a man (Leviticus 27:1-7, Leviticus 12:1-
5), banning crippled people from church (Leviticus 21:16-23), banning
christmas trees (Jeremiah 10:2-8), hating your family (Luke 14:26, Matthew
10:37-38), only beating your slaves as much as they deserve (Luke 12:47-
48), sewing discord and division like jesus (Matthew 10:34, Luke 12:49-51),
castrating yourself (Matthew 19:11-12, and yes, he is talking about
castration), relying on prayer and oils from church to heal your sickness
(James 5:14-15), keeping your wife subservient at all times, and especially
keeping her silent in church (I Corinthians 14:34-35, I Corinthians 11:3,
Colossians 3:18, I Timothy 2:11-15), forbidding any non-christian to ever
come into your house (II John 10-11), kissing other men (as a man I
Thessalonians 5:26. See also Romans 16:16; I Corinthians 16:20; II
Corinthians 13:12; I Peter 5:14)...

and in case you missed it, there are new testament references in there as
well, for those of you who like to whine "but that's the old testament!" as
if somehow HALF THE BIBLE doesn't belong to your religion. "but jesus
changed all that!" wrong. he didn't. you should see the things he says, his
contradictions, the actions he sanctions and commands etc.

even the 10 commandments that you suckers DO follow, as though they're some
great moral guidlines are corrupt, self serving (to god) and have very
little bearing on modern day morality. like for instance if you rebel
against god, but your kids are faithful christians, IT DOESN'T MATTER.
they're going to hell! and their kids, and their kids kids, and their kids
kids kids, and their kids kids kids kids, and their kids kids kids kids
kids, and THEIR kids kids kids kids kids kids. NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF


the amount of EVIL *cough* that has been done in the world in the name of
christianity is simply staggering. it's a worthless fucking religion that
has been largely ignored and a few choice TINY parts taken out and molded
to the INTERPRETATIONS of the reader to further whatever goals they might
have. it's a religion ripped off of many older religions (which were just
as much bullshit), and then heaped with fiction on top.

sorry, but if you're so pathetic as to need that kind of crap in your life
and can't think for yourself, and need to have a preacher hold your hand
once a week (or more), and feel the need to belong to a group of other
stupid sheep... whatever floats your boat. just keep it the FUCK out of my
life, my goverment, etc. I honestly don't EVER hear other religions
infringing on my life, liberty or pursuit of happiness, but I at least ONCE
A DAY have to deal with christian IDIOCY fucking with my freedoms and


oh, don't even try to point to 9-11... I could go on a tirade about the
United States imperialistic international policies since it's inception
that have led directly to kind of hate that led to 9-11... not to mention
the fact that we armed and trained Osama ourselves when it was convenient
for us to have HIS people fight and die against the russians in afghanistan
during the cold war, and then our abandoning them still fully armed and
trained afterwards where they slowly grew to see what kind of nation we
really were, and over the next 20 years or so became "the terrorists" we're
now supposed to be so damn afraid of that we are having our most basic
civil liberties stripped from us as we spiral down into an orwellian police
state. and if you think the fact that George W. Bush is on record as
calling this war a "crusade" and "god is on our side" and that you
christian FUCKS in the mid 50's, IN VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUTION,
rebranded this country a CHRISTIAN NATION, "UNDER GOD" and "IN GOD WE
TRUST", didn't really get the muslims up in arms... and when we do shit
like back the genocide of the palestinians in the name of Israel because
do some research on that jackass. and see who is WORLD RECOGNIZED as
causing the REAL war crimes.)... the list goes on and fucking on.

"e pluribus unum" - Out of many, (come) one. our original motto...
celebrating the diversity of beliefs, cultures, races, creeds etc that came
together to form our one great nation. the true vision of our founding
fathers. where all men are created equal and free in their pursuit of life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness (including the right to believe in any
religion or no religion at all, and written directly in the constitution
and bill of rights, the means to ensure a secular and neutral government
taking no sides and equally protecting ALL of it's people in the NAME of
the people and the constitution ALONE. -NOT- in the name of god, or the
president... who even the president himself is expressly commanded to serve
the PEOPLE and the CONSTITUTION and have NO religious test for office. the
presidential oath was written into the constitution SPECIFICALLY WORDED to
NOT include ANY reference to god or religion etc. and every year the
government shits on the constitution they're sworn to serve by making the
president add "so help me god" to the end.

but I digress... the extents of your fucking idiocy and the detrimental
effects it has had on this nation domestically and our international
relations are so deep rooted and fundamental that I honestly don't think
we'll EVER recover... considering the current state of affairs where a
president actually pushes to pass a constitutional amendment to DENY rights
of it's people and not PROTECT them. you would have thought we would have
learned a lesson from segregation, womens sufferage, prohibition, the
banning of inter-racial marriages, DIRECTLY echoed by modern day events...

but I'm sure I'm wasting my breath on your thick skull... shielded by your
"god works in mysterious ways" self imposed ignorance and your rose colored

> blended with (again) historically verifiable pagan beliefs
>> such as switching the sabbath day (which had been saturday for
>> millennia) to SUNday which was the pagan day of worship (can you
>> guess why?), and
> I don't think the actual day matters so much as the fact that there is
> a day set aside for worship.

and why does there need to be a WORSHIP day set aside? I'm fucking SICK of
not being able to do certain things and have limitations imposed on me on
SUNday (which isn't even the real fucking sabbath day!) because a bunch of
uptight repressed prudes want to force THEIR religion on MY CIVIC FREEDOMS.


>> adopting the concept of the trinity, which had never before appeared
>> in christian (or jewish) texts,
> The trinity comes from early Christians wanting to worship Jesus as
> God, but not wanting to let go of strict Jewish monotheism. So, they
> basically said in this case, 3=1 and 1=3, but how that could be is a
> "Mystery". Translation: only God knows and He's not telling.
> Personally, I think the early Christians just should have let go of
> the monotheistic ideal. I also think there was no particular need to
> portray the Holy Spirit as a third entity either.

STOLEN DIRECTLY FROM THE PAGANS. (to which 3 was a holy number, numerology

> and halos (which pagans wore as rings of
>> feathers above their heads during their ceremonies), and many other
>> aspects.
> Halo's were an affectation of Christian art meant to emphasize the
> holiness or divinity of the person portrayed in the work of art.
> Halos themselves are not really part of the theological beliefs of
> Christianity, just a traditional way of depicting religious figures.

STOLEN DIRECTLY FROM THE PAGANS. (as I already explained)

>> are you comprehending any of this yet you fucking clueless little
>> turd?
>> go hug a tree and worship your imaginary sky god... I for one don't
>> need training wheels for my mind.
>> do us all a favor and kill yourself. let's find out if your beliefs
>> are really true... oh wait, you won't be able to let us know, you'll
>> be DEAD. just like nobody else EVER in history has came back from
>> being DEAD
> Well, no one for whom it was verifiably documented. But you are right
> ... we will all find out who's right someday.

haha... no, we won't. we'll be taking the eternal dirt nap. end of story.
nothing to tell. you fucking christians will be waiting FOREVER to (never)
find out what we people with functioning cognitive ability will have known
all along. I almost pity you suckers.

>> (after being brutally crucified and having his side slit open for
>> good measure no less)
>> *chuckle*
>> at least you christians are always good for a laugh at the extent to
>> which human stupidity, mental weakness and gullibility can go.
> I think you are being unfair grouping all Christians as being
> likeminded gullible fools. Yes, some of us accept anything we are
> told by the church and think every single word in the Bible is
> literally true, but others of us view a lot of the dogma and tradition
> of Christianity with a great dea1 more skepticism, and most of us are
> somewhere in the middle.

by definition, the belief in so many things that christianity entails,
you're labeling yourself. "yes, I believe in an imaginary sky god, a
religion provably stolen and made up and full of fallacies and
contradictions and things that I wouldn't believe in a million years if
someone told me that someone did them today."

if you don't believe the bible, why are you a christian at all? why not
just be a deist? oh... because that doesn't have all the feel good warm
fuzzy hand holding fantasies that full blown christianity does. *pat on
head* it'll be ok.

> Personally, I think any judgement that we will face won't be on the
> basis of what we believe, but on how we behave in life. Belief is not
> a choice, it's an emotional reaction. Thus, you can't really control
> how you believe. But we can control how we behave and how we treat
> others. At the end, I don't think God really cares if you believe in
> the trinity or in the divinity of Christ. What he will care about is
> if you emulated Christ by being kind, generous, helpful, etc. to
> others.

well, according to YOUR religion, that's not true. you're just making shit
up... but hey! it's all in the time tested and honored tradition of
religion! :D

and yes, you do have some control over what you believe. it's called
looking at the facts, the reality, the evidence, being skeptical and
testing your beliefs and readjusting them to the evolving world around you.

I can live a life as good (or better) than any christian, and per YOUR
RELIGION, I STILL won't get into heaven, because I didn't SPECIFICALLY kiss
your JEALOUS GODS ASS (and yes, if you want I can tell you the verses where
god actually calls himself a jealous god and his name is jealous several
times. and that he lives in darkness, and that he created evil himself

your whole belief structure is immensely fucking outdated, plagiarized,
incorrect, self-contradictory, repressive, immoral, ignorant... hell, I'd
easily say that several parts of your religion would be correctly termed


now tell me again why I shouldn't mock you stupid fucks? you can try to re-
interpret and try to rethink your way around the GLARING problems with your
beliefs all day long... but the simple and obvious answer to those of us
with functioning brains not crippled by the cognitive dissonance of having
been brainwashed into a cult and now being unable to de-program ourselves,
is that you're a fucking weak minded twit who can't seem to remove his
mental training wheels.

(PS: this is under the assumption that you're a male.. if you're not and
you're still a christian, I hope you go shoot yourself. your religion has
been a driving force in the repression and abuse of women for millenia, not
to mention racial and sexual opression up to and including the outright
horrific and brutal murder of millions of people since it's inception.)

nuff said.