Monday, May 23, 2005



now, as long as we're both aware of Freedom of Expression... and that even if you get all offended and steam starts coming out of your ears, technically, in a truly free society, you shouldn't be able to censor that person.

now as far as calling it ART... that's entirely subjective. is art a form of personal expression? is art only things that are beautiful? how do you quantify beautiful? where do you draw the line between what is aesthetically pleasing to you, or to someone else? etc.

unfortunately, the dictionary seems to take the view that art has to be beautiful or aesthetically pleasing. I was always of the impression that it was a form of personal expression. if I wanted to paint what was on my mind... (and I did chalk "art" when I was younger, among many other things... including pieces being displayed in an art museum etc.) what if what was on my mind was darkness and hate and anger and despair... and I let that flow through my hands and onto canvas and left something terrible... ?? then it's not art? even if 1 other person could look at that and see the beauty in it? the window into a persons soul?

where do you draw the line and make the decision for what someone can and cannot call art, based on YOUR perception of it and feelings towards it? if it's not hurting you, robbing you, or depriving you of some inalienable right or something... I don't see what the issue is. you're free to disagree and not call it art... but you really can't say that someone else can't. to THEM it very well could be art.

just my 2 cents I guess. I'm sure this could be argued in circles all day. and I know that I could argue "both" sides, and a number of tangents. but I think in the end, I covered the main gist hopefully.

Piss Christ

expression... might even be "beautiful" to someone... beauty being in the eye of the beholder after all. ;)

it's all relative... it's all subjective.

I think a more fruitful discussion here would be to focus more on the fact of simply offending other people... not about the "art or not art" aspect of it.

and I think I already covered that too. freedom of speech and of expression. I have no pity for people so grievously offended by the equivalent of pissing on a picture of hansel and gretel standing outside the gingerbread house.

want something to really get upset about? consider things like how upset you'd be if someone murdered your parents... or raped your sibling... REAL LIFE. people need to stop getting their panties in a bunch over PIECES OF FUCKING PAPER or LITTLE PLASTIC STATUES.

I honestly wish they'd all just kill each other off and leave those of us with (un)common sense to refill the gene pool.


Lisa said...

Yes, I could have spun it in the general direction of offending people. It was the underlying issue - but I simply didn't want to.

As you probably notice, the title was "the line between art and insult". So I chose to talk about a subject which really has no answer. Just to get people to think about their own opinions, I suppose.

I wasn't offended at the statue. And yes, I've seen the piece that you linked to too. I couldn't care less. But I did see a link with the Quaran (I think that's how you spell it). I think that there is a double standard within society. I also think the blatant lack of respect is almost childish.

Which brings me to a it about offending people, or simply creating an excuse to disrespect others? Because if you insult a person's religion, you insult the person themselves (as religion is the foundation of many people, yadda yadda yadda).

I think the guise of "art" gives people an excuse to be rude, plain and simple.

And I'm tired and rambling. Enough now.

Phreadom said...

Koran or Qu'ran.

for the record, if someone is being stupid about religion, I don't need any excuse or something to hide behind to offend them... I will offend them flat to their face and say "you're wrong and your beliefs are childish and stupid and here's why..."

now, obviously I wouldn't say that in the middle east, as I enjoy living in a country that is at least advanced enough to where you won't be publicly executed for saying what you think (and I'm trying to keep it that way). and not believing in an afterlife, I value the one I've got.

I don't really see the distinction there actually... I hate Christianity and most religions in general... and by proxy, I believe that anyone who believes strongly in Christianity (or Islam etc), is inherently ignorant and/or weak(mentally/emotionally)... and in turn, I don't really see a good reason to go out of my way to respect someone who should know better.

(when it comes to people who AREN'T smart enough to know better, I'm MUCH more leniant. and unless pressed, will not bring the subject up at all.)

anyway.... could you clarify what the double standard is?

maybe I'm tired too... but I'm not quite sure what you were referring to.

I guess I should clarify something here... my point isn't to just be an asshole and offend people, it's to say "THINK ABOUT THIS. THIS IS WHY YOU'RE WRONG." not "hey, you're a stupid asshole."

both are probably offensive to everyone, but one actually has the more likely (however slight) possibility of having a productive outcome.