some more older posts from one of my other online journals.
on Dr.David Noble (and then religion) 12/9/2003
after reading several summaries of one of his books, and one of his lectures... I think the guy has some very interesting ideas... and so far, the only real flaws I see are where he attempts to make ties to christianity. factually pretty much everything else I read seems right... but referring to "knowledge lost in eden", when supposedly it is precisely knowledge that we gained there by eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, whereby we gained the very knowledge of god himself. the only things we supposedly lost, were ignorance, the chance at eternal life through eating the fruit of the tree of eternal life, and thereby becoming gods ourselves, and a nice happy paradise to live in. heck, knowledge was the 1 thing we DID gain there, we lost everything ELSE. (supposedly) ;) it is just a fairytale after all.
anyway... you should read sometime the actual story in genesis about things such as the creation, and eden etc... the glaring fallacies alone in that one book of the bible should be enough to make ANY semi-intelligent person walk away from christianity for good, if not at least seriously reconsidering their beliefs and taking a quite unorthodox stance with their spiritual beliefs. the main point is that you can't have it both ways... you either have to admit that it's just a story, and not remotely literal (aside from being factually erroneous)... or you have to admit that it's wrong. either way, it's no longer a sound foundation for any belief system. because one way you have to admit that it's just a story, a fable of sorts, and therefor all the flaws, errors and inconsistancies should be overlooked as irrelevant to the moral of the story... or you take the stance of the fundamentalist orthodox belief that everything is word for word literally exactly what really happened. which is INSANE to honestly even TRY to claim anymore, as scientifically we've learned better since the bible was written. the animals that the bible claims god created first... weren't the first animals. they were just what animals the people who made up the stories in the bible knew at the time... we learned better in the centuries that followed... and yet people still try to insist that the bible is fact. that it is true down to every last word. how can you do that? or that it literally says that in the garden, god was walking around talking with the angels etc... and had to go looking for adam and eve after they ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil... and that when he found them, he had them kicked out because if they had gotten ahold of the fruit of the tree of eternal life, THEY WOULD BE EXACTLY LIKE HIM. the "man" got scared to lose his position of power, so like a jealous little kid, he kicked them out and had an angel with a flaming sword keep them from getting back in. now honestly kids.. do you really believe that god himself was chillin in the garden, and that two magical trees with magical fruit that made you smarter and gave you immortality were there... and it was a perfect paradise, with angels running around and naked people and the animals all living together in peaceful bliss... then god got mad that adam and eve might get to live forever just like him, because they ate the magic fruit from one of the magic trees, and might get the other one? so he has his boys give them the boot and guard the door with a giant flaming sword? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? HAVE YOU NO COMMON SENSE!? it's not even an original story! the story of the tree and the snake and all that... predates christianity completely! christianity just adopted a lot of other previous religions stories as well as common myths and fables... and tied them together with enough historical fact such as places and dates later in the bible.. actual people who lived, ruled etc.. to make it believable to the people of the time. it's incredibly sad that otherwise intelligent adults cannot grasp the huge gap in logical thought that says while it's common sense that you can't magically bring people back from the dead (we're talking DEAD)... and that you can't walk on water... or make water into wine (not talking magic tricks)... we "know" that all of this stuff is just simply not real... and yet because we were taught that the bible is true... we believe all these things we KNOW aren't otherwise true? it's like taking your brain out of your head because christianity has no use for it. I honestly just cannot understand how people can be so terribly blind and stupid even when SHOWN the glaring faults in their thinking.
it's as simple as this... you can prove that the bible is WRONG about a lot of things, inconsistent, contradictory... plainly a fable in large part... and provably so. so with that said... the bible is the ONLY source of Christianity... it is supposedly the word of god (and infallible)... proof of itself (a silly concept in and of itself)... so how can you 100% believe in god if the very foundation of the single source of your "proof" is PROVABLY incorrect, flawed, outdated, wrong, contradictory... aside from being historical fiction?
christians literally have to force themselves to suspend their common sense and intelligence to maintain their belief. suspension of disbelief... and they have to do this at basically every single step of the way. to fight knowing too much, thinking too much... if it interferes with their safety blanket fantasy.
man learned long ago that lightning wasn't the result of the angry sky god throwing magic missiles down upon their heads... science luckily brought us far enough beyond that point that people finally accepted the reality of it. and while that is happening slowly to christianity, people are still holding on... trying to "reinterpret" the bible... ignore chunks of it... whatever they can... and they increasingly keep turning to the few things we haven't proven them wrong on... which isn't much more than "who created the universe.. if anyone at all?" and that's where they'll point to and say "see! there is gods work!"
as evolution (both micro and macro) has been proven (natural selection etc)... and we now know that animals did start out millions of years ago as single celled organisms and evolved from there... from the seas onto land... etc... christianity has been left with little choice but to attempt to adapt... and in the process ignore the bibles story of creation, treat it as a simple fable, or be left behind by factual reality as mankind continues to be enlightened. so they claim that "ok... evolution happened, but god made that first single cell! and he guided evolution! it was all his work!" although we now understand that chemicals naturally strive for the same conditions which make up single celled organisms etc.. simple proteins etc... for instance "mad deer" sickness... it isn't caused by a virus or anything "living" thing... it's just a protein... you can't treat it or kill it unless you physically destroy it with bleach or something like that because it's just a chemical. and yet it "reproduces" itself etc as though it were living... this is the same concept that gave rise to the first proteins in the ocean... complex proteins... a single cell... and so on and so forth. natural selection... if it doesn't work, it doesn't exist. the inefficient or weak fail and don't "reproduce", while the successful do and carry on those successful qualities through their "offspring". over literally hundreds of millions of years, this gives rise to some pretty complex organisms as you can see through any basic dinosaur book with a timeline in it.
no, the sky god didn't scoop up some magic clay in his magic garden and *poof* turn it into a man... then pull out his rib and *poof* magically make a woman. WE KNOW BETTER. USE YOUR HEAD.
anyway... enough for now. more later I'm sure.